Source note: Full supplied automatic transcript; timeline markers removed. Spoken wording, participant remarks, and chapter order retained. Automatic transcription errors may remain.

Chapter 1: Ministry updates and support

Amen. Thank you, Sean. Okay, guys. Welcome to our Shabbat class today. We’re going to be talking on the second part, if you will, of our tongues study. We’re kind of ended last week with a discussion on the spirit. And we ended up on gifts of the spirit, one of which is tongues. And that lesson just spurned all kinds of follow-up questions. So much so that we decided to do part two. So that’s what we’re doing today. But uh before we do that, I wanted to say two things. And let’s make sure you guys can see me here. My camera on. Can you guys see that? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Do you know what that is? It’s a little blurry, but yes, it’s a little blurry. Your camera is having a hard time picking it up, but yeah, it’s a plaque.

It’s a plaque given to me by my son, my daughter-in-law, and my wife. Uh, recently, as many of you know, we um we hit 10,000 subscribers on the YouTube channel. And um and I’m like, well, what happens at 10,000 subscribers? What you know, do I get any presents? [laughter] And you know, no, you don’t, you know, you don’t get anything if when you hit 10,000 subscribers. My son was super excited. And so, out of the kindness of their hearts, they sent me a plaque congring congratulating me for uh hitting 10,000 subscribers, finding the ancient path. And I just thought that was so special.

So, I wanted to share that with you guys. and and uh I’m going to hang that up here on my wall or on my desk or something, but just wanted to express you deserve that, Ed. Ed, you deserve a lot of of that. So, I think we’re all grateful for you, brother. Um Well, you don’t get a lot of credit. Uh but I I wanted to say to say thank you for everything you do. Well, thank you, Tim. I appreciate you. I always feel your love and did a rest of your love. Yes, I do. it. It’s a big sacrifice. On that note, um I I needed to say something that I really don’t know how to say it, [clears throat] but um I I promised myself I would get this out and promised others that I would get this out.

But here here it goes. um the the ministry, if you want to call it that, our little group here, uh and the everything that we’re we’re doing together, whether it’s uh the daily shorts or our Shabbat meetings or interacting with you all via email and text and phone calls um has gotten, you know, is is is getting challenging. Um, and when I say challenging, I mean that I also own a small homerun business as you all know that I have to operate and um and give time to it for it to oper operate successfully. And as I’ve shared in the past, I I’m kind of tunnel focused in my character. So, it’s really difficult for me to juggle two balls like that in my personality.

I zero in on one thing and I focus on that one thing until I’m done with that one thing and then I move on to something else. And um juggling ministry and um and business is really difficult because the business doesn’t care if you’re focused on something. [laughter] It it it it interrupts whenever it w wants to and that of course distracts me and blah blah blah. So, there’s been a lot of talk between my wife and I as of late about what happens next. Um, how how long do I keep the business? Um, how much do I allow this group to grow? Um, you know, all these things come into play. and I turned 60 this year. And so I can’t see myself, you know, into into my later years juggling with uh the small business.

Um probably going to be handing it off to one of my technicians. Um you know, as a as a gift, kind of a going away gift. He’s been with me for 15 years. But I can’t do that until I’m be able to support myself with two things. One, whatever I can earn on YouTube. Um, and two, whatever you guys give. And I’m very grateful to the many of you who donate to support this ministry. Uh, but I’m at that place where I have I think I’m going to be forced to make a decision one or the other. Am I going to do this, which I love, and I can’t imagine not doing this, or am I going to do the business because we’re quickly approaching the time where I won’t be able to do both? And so, um, what does that mean? I don’t know.

I think you guys know I hate talking to you guys about giving and money. I just really do. probably because of my own back baggage, you know, the things that I I came from and the manipulation that my old church used to pull on its members to squeeze another dime out of them, which I just hate. So, I don’t want to be that guy. I don’t want to be that ministry. Uh, but at the same time, I, you know, if I want to do this full-time, I wouldn’t be able to do it without you guys. So, that’s what I wanted to say. Um, I’m not sure if there’s a question in there or just a statement or or what, but I felt like it was important to kind of bring you guys in to where I’m at on this and um and leave it at that.

Any any thoughts from anybody? David, Tim? Okay. I just want to encourage everyone to uh you know just remind I don’t know what if you have to ask yourself what would you do if you didn’t have really

Chapter 2: Community support and counsel

good teaching in your life and then now this burgeoning fellowship and I just want to encourage if people are looking to to give you know maybe to to continue to do that Ed won’t ask I know he barely asked right there but just you know if we want to do it you know it would be great it is tough to break and and end a business and and for him. So, I’m going to do that. I know David would echo that 100% 100% and we’re like like Tim said and many others I know either vocally or or on comments etc that we’re all extremely grateful and for the gift that you have and the gift that you use and you use it freely and generously way beyond anybody else that does these kind of things.

Yes, people put videos out, but the personal contact and the the availability, the way that you make yourself available. I’ve heard from many people, I don’t even know the amount of conversations that you have with people that just reach out to you, email, people have your personal phone number, call you, you minister to them. Uh just the the blessing that that brings to so many people. Uh we’re all grateful for that. Uh support you on any decision. totally can understand the challenge in in balancing uh both those things.

But I think that uh you know the ministry that you are uh leading here and as I said allowing uh allowing uh Yeshua and the and the spirit to work through you to reach so many is is just quote unquote priceless. And uh we’re totally grateful for that. Um and I just want to share that. Amen, brother. Thank you. Appreciate that. Uh Randy, you have your hands up and then Gordon. Yeah, thank you Ed. Um I echo all that that Tim and David said as well as I just want to share with the group that um you and I have partnered a lot together in ministry on a Wednesday call um for two hours every Wednesday for the last eight or nine weeks.

You’ve been on that Zoom call and been in very instrumental in uh some friends of mine’s journey. and you’re jumping on a Monday uh evening call with me with three or four young men, a Zoom call. Um so I want to share that with the group just as a real practical um example of the time you’re giving. And then I wanted to ask you Ed, if you would just share with the group, can you make it very clear for us how do we give and where is the greatest need? Is it uh monthly? um support versus one time. What’s preferred? I know you’d probably say, “Listen, anything that anybody wants to give is great, but what is the best way to support this ministry that I think this is all of our ministry.

We’re all being ministered to uh we can uh partner with you. There’s this I just think this is all of our ministry. So, how do we help further this ministry that we’re all benefiting from even though you’re the figurehead, so to speak? What is the best way to give and what is the greatest need to get you to a place where you can do this full-time and let go of the carpet? Well, thank you, brother. I appreciate that. Um, and yes, you’re right. Anything that anyone gives, I don’t care how much it is, I’m grateful. And and regardless of how they give, I’m grateful. Um, if a person wants to do a one-time thing, probably PayPal would be best for that.

If they wanted to do something monthly, then that would be um Patreon or YouTube. Um, and you know, what’s the need? Well, you know, like anybody else, I if if I could budget um you know, my life around what’s given uh Thank you, David. Yes, I know I have to create that. Uh what’s given uh monthly then? Um that’s that that would be easy, you know, it would be easier if I could know uh the support that was coming in uh each month. So, you can do any of those, all of those on the website. You know, um Michael and and and uh Sean have created a wonderful donate page and we’re still working on tweaking that a little bit because of things I have to do. But, um that would be the answer to your question, I think, bro.

Okay, Cordon. And then we’ll jump into the lesson. Thank you, Ed. I really do appreciate that. So the first thing that was kind of coming to my mind is the amount of stress and pressure from the ministry. And it reminded me of Jethro and Moses and how Jethro basically said to Moses to assign certain types of people that he was well aware of into different tribes whether it be 500, 100, 50 or even 10 for that matter and actually do things in which that things are delegated based upon its responsibility. Um, I was thinking about like for example some of the lessons you actually have like the shorts and other things like that.

I think often times usually you will read from a PowerPoint presentation and you will kind of talk about it something where you could actually have the narrator and then you could talk about it as far as the scripture goes, but do so in a way in which that you can send that to whatever person you choose necessary. they can read that and things like that. There are some of us that actually work pretty much almost on a 24-hour basis except with the Shabbat being our only day off and there are some of us that have a lot of free time. I don’t know what that constitutes in this group. But one thing I will say is that whatever you decide you actually do.

I think the delegation of how you do it should be a determination based upon yourself and also for those others that can just read a bulletin point and do it as a subcategory which is still part of your ministry. That’s my thoughts. Thank you Cordon. Yeah. And you are not the first person to remind me of the Jethro model. Um, I’ve heard that. Uh, and I I just need to figure out what that looks like, you know, for for this group. Um, and maybe it’ll come, you know, after council, after talking to some other brothers and figure out what that would look like, how how it would look, then we can we can go forward with that. But, um, let’s move on to the lesson. One quick thing I just wanted to say, Ed, real quick.

Um, the question is being asked if some people feel strongly about mailing [clears throat] you a physical check and is it acceptable to give out your your um personal address is the question. So, um, can you respond to that one? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That reminds me of something else I didn’t do. I’m supposed to go create a PO box and maybe I’ll do that this week. Um, what’s that? Yeah. Yeah. So, once I get that PO box, um I’ll let I’ll let everyone know and that way you can just feel safe about sending it there. Um does that answer your question, Tim? Uh yeah, thank you. I told people to email you if if they want to phys send you a physical check. Okay. Amen. Okay. One quick thing.

My son’s channel, I just wanted to say something because I just can’t. He posted his very first video, him and his wife, four days ago. In four days, he has 27,000 views and almost 1,200 subscribers. That I mean that is blow away. uh you know and it just goes to show I think the father’s really blessing it because that’s a demographic that we desperately need to cover in the body. People his age group, people his age group that are going through the desert like us and what that means for them when they’re having babies and all that kind of stuff. So be continue to be praying for that and um that’s what I wanted to share. So, let’s go to the lesson. Here we are, guys. Welcome back.

Speaking in tongues, does this still happen? That’s kind of the big question of the hour.

Chapter 3: The typology of baptism

Um, at least that was the big question of the hour. Kind of left over from last week if you haven’t had a chance to watch last week’s discussion that I encourage you to stop watching this one and go back and watch that one first so you can catch up. We had a lot of um lively discussion, a lot of great questions at the end. enough that we decided to do round two. So, we’re going to talk about that today and then next week we’re moving on to the desert, the wilderness. Brother Baronson’s going to be leading us in a wonderful lesson that he taught us at Sakote and I’m looking forward for that to taking place. But let’s jump into this speaking in tongues.

Over the past several weeks, we’ve been examining the work of the Holy Spirit. And one subject has continued to generate questions. This one discussion and even disagreement, speaking in tongues. Many of you have raised important questions concerning baptism, receiving the Holy Spirit, the purpose of miraculous gifts, and whether speaking in tonesues continues today. You’ve also heard questions about personal prayer languages, the tongues of angels, and how to understand those who claim miraculous experiences while living contrary to the commandments of Yah. These are legitimate questions and they deserve biblical answers.

Now, my purpose in this lesson is not to prove that speaking in tongues has ceased or that it’s continues today. My purpose is to examine what the scripture actually teaches. Why these gifts were given, how [snorts] they functioned in the early assembly, and whether their original purpose remains applicable today. That’s the big question. And perhaps most importantly, how do we reconcile someone’s personal spiritual experience with what scripture teaches? Because personal experience does not establish biblical truth. Biblical truth is the standard by which every experience must be examined.

So today, we’re going to set aside denominational doctrines, religious traditions, personal assumptions, and even our own experiences and allow scripture to allow to interpret scripture. And of course, wherever that leads us, we must be willing to follow. There’s brother David who asked a very important question last week. Why does baptism need to happen before receiving the Holy Spirit? What is its purpose? Well, the first thing we need to understand is that the practice of ritual washing and immersion did not begin with John the Baptist or with the New Testament. That’s a very common misunderstanding. Its foundation is already established in the Torah. But there is an important distinction.

Even though the Torah repeatedly commands washing, bathing, cleansing with water, it does not explicitly establish every feature of what later became known as the mikvah. The Hebrew word mikvah refers to a gathering or collection of water. in its first appearance is in Genesis 1 when the Bible says Yahw called the dry land earth and the gathering together of the waters he called seas. That phrase gathering together is mikvah. So mikvah is a gathering together of water. What was the purpose of washing in the Torah? Because remember we’re trying to answer David’s question. Why does baptism need to happen before receiving the Holy Spirit? So then we have to ask this one. What what was the purpose of washing in the Torah?

Well, I think we all know that first and foremost it was an issue of uncleanness. And we see in Leviticus 15, when he who has a discharge is cleansed of his discharge, he then shall count for himself seven days for his cleansing, wash his clothes, and bathe his body in running. And that word in the Hebrew for running is living water and then he shall be clean. What is living water? Living water is basically um Get rid of my phone so it stops interrupting us. Living water basically means this that it has an ingress and an egress. It’s moving. Not that the water itself is alive with microbes and algae and all that kind of stuff. No, living water means that it’s it’s got a way in and it’s got a way out.

So, a river or uh a lake that has rivers coming in and rivers coming out or a mikvah. Uh traditional mikvah has a has a a ingress of water going in and an egress of water going out. So that’s what that word means. Also priestly service. There’s another reason for washing in scripture. Exodus 30. For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet in water from it. When they go into the tabernacle of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister to burn an offering made by fire to Yhovah, they shall wash with water, lest they die. David, Tim, we have a long lesson today. We’re probably going to go long, but I still want to pull you in the best I can.

What when we look at Exodus 30 19-20 and realize this command about priestly service and the requirements for them to be washed when they go into or near the tabernacle or altar lest they die. Does that make you think of anything? There’s all kinds of thoughts that are jumping to my mind, but uh specifically obviously the priestly duties when he’s going into the holy of holies uh the fact that you know God cannot be in in presence of sin right u and uh the fact that you know as a result of that we are also all priests right we are a nation of priests as well so it’s just kind of a lot of different directions that we can go with this uh to kind of show or demonstrate how this potentially applies to us.

Okay, Timothy, how it applies. Yeah, it just makes me think of, you know, like Mark chapter 9 when he says if your if your hand caus you sin, you know, cut it off, you know, if your feet cause you to, you know, rush into sin, but he wants us to deal with our lives, you know, and yes, it’s symbolic with the hands and the feet um in addition to the the burning, but that was just what came to my mind. Both great answers, but there’s something I want you guys to know, and this does not really have anything to do with tongues or the spirit.

But the one thing that I want you to know is anytime you read something in your New Testament, even though we all know there is no such thing as a New Testament, uh anytime that you read something in the New Testament that you don’t understand, you will always always always find answers for it in the Tanakh in the Old Testament. So what am I talking about here? Yeshua’s baptism. The people have so many questions about Yeshua’s B. Well, why was he baptized? If baptism has something to do with sin, then why was Yeshua baptized? Well, what was the reason that he gave? Let me be baptized by you, John, because it’s fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness, right? What What does he mean by that?

Well, Yeshua was fixing to be our high priest. He was fixing to serve as a priest and he had to be obedient to the laws surrounding the priest who were required to wash before their service. Again, not really pertinent to the lesson at large, but I thought I would make that important point just for us to know and understand. So there’s typology in baptism in washing. The purpose in the old covenant as we’ve seen is the cleansing of uncleanness and the washing and preparation. But the vessel must be clean before it can be a dwelling place for Yah. Over and over and over again, we see in scripture the importance of cleanliness. And again, that’s all typology.

But even even the language in the Torah where you know the the father says, you know, make sure that you don’t have any dookie. [laughter] He doesn’t actually say that, but but he he makes a point to Israel to make sure that when he walks through the camp that it’s not it doesn’t have a refuge in it. It’s not it’s not a dirty place. The vessel must be clean before it can be a dwelling place for Yahw. And we see this in Ezekiel 36. I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be clean. and I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and you will keep my judgments and do them. So notice the progression in Ezekiel 36. Yhovah cleanses his people with clean water. He then gives them a new heart and a new spirit. He puts his own spirit within them. And then his spirit causes them to walk in obedience to his commands. And when we look at Acts 2:38 where Peter told the brothers what they needed to do to repent, we can see much of that progress, that progression in Acts two. Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Yeshua for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So almost in order, exact order, we can see Peter repeating what would what was foretold through Ezekiel about the purpose of baptism and the need for us to be cleansed. We see it again in Acts two, I’m sorry, Acts 22, uh, in regards to Paul’s conversion. Why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash. There’s that word, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. So why does baptism need to happen before receiving the Holy Spirit? Well, because of what the scriptures all teach about the importance of cleanliness.

And when you understand that cleanliness in the Old Covenant or in the Old Testament was typology of what that would mean for us on a spiritual level in the future, then it all begins to make sense. David, did you want to say anything about this before we move on since we’re talking about your question? No, this is a perfect answer to and you know, you very clear about it. So, it’s exactly what I was referring to. Thank you. Okay. Awesome. Uh again in 1 Peter 3, I didn’t know I forgot about this last verse. In the days of Noah, when the ark was being prepared in which a few, that is eight souls were saved through water. There’s also an antitype which now saves us.

Baptism, not the removal of filth from the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards Yahw. Yeah. And another resurrection of Yeshua Messiah. Someone’s microphone is on. Or is that you? That was me. That’s me. Go ahead. Yeah. Um, another example that was also given in the New Testament is uh the parting of the Red Sea, right? Parting of the Red Sea, Israel going through it. It’s serving also as a form of baptism. Christine and I were talking about it this morning is them being baptized, them being cleansed so that that he can dwell among them in the desert, right? and they had to be cleansed so that you know God could be in their presence at that time as well. So another another example of that. Yes.

So to nail this home, let me ask a question uh that I don’t necessarily need you to answer, but Peter makes the argument here that we like Noah was saved through water, right, at baptism. And we’re going to talk more about how that how that works in a later slide. But couldn’t the argument be made when you look at Peter’s words and then compare them to Ezekiel 36 that the water in question regarding the priests also saved them because when you look at that verse in Ezekiel 36 uh he says uh let’s see where does he say it um or maybe it wasn’t in this verse but the previous verse that we looked at where he talked about lest you high, right? You could you walk into the temple in an unclean manner.

You walk into the tabernacle in an unclean manner. You you haven’t followed the instructions of being bathed. You will die. And so it all makes sense when you put all these things together biblically. That is okay. Let’s look at Richard. There’s Richard, brother Richard.

Chapter 4: Baptism and repentance

He asked, “If I was baptized years ago while still living in willful sin, but have since come to genuine repentance and committed myself to walking in obedience to Yahw, was my original baptism valid? And if the indwelling Holy Spirit is received through repentance and baptism, when did I actually receive him?” Good question. Let’s answer it the best we can. Richard is connecting three matters that scripture requires us to examine separately. The first one being the sincerity of repentance. Does continuing to sin after baptism proves someone never genuinely repented? Well, if you ask everybody on the planet who calls themselves a believer, well, let’s just limit it to the people in this group.

We probably have 70 people online right now or give or take. If I was to ask the 70 people online, how many of you have sinned as after coming to repentance and coming to to Yeshua? Every one of us would say, “Yeah, we have. We’ve errored here. We’ve errored there.” So, does continuing to sin after baptism proves someone never genuinely? Well, it depends on the severity of the sin. Honestly, there’s sin and then there’s intentional sin. There’s sin and then there’s people who refuse to repent. And so, every situation is different. What about the validity of baptism? Does greater understanding and obedience later in life invalidate an earlier baptism? Fantastic question.

And if I’m honest, I will tell you that when I came to an understanding of the ways, I asked myself this question. I was baptized in 1988 and I asked myself, “Huh, does Ed need to be rebaptized?” And after long thought and prayer and study, I came to the conclusion, “No.” And here’s why. Because when I look back at the day that I was baptized, I can honestly tell you that my only focus on that day was following this Messiah. All I wanted in that day was to be with him. All I was thinking about was what he was doing for me. That’s that’s genuine. That’s a real conversion when you have these things in your heart.

Now, even if I never found the way, even if I was never led to the way, it’s safe to say that my level of understanding, even before I found the way, was miles beyond my level of understanding when I was 20 years old. So, this is a question that you have to answer yourself. Brother Richard, thinking about your own situation, I don’t want to answer it for you. What about the reception of the Holy Spirit? Can we determine precisely when someone received the indwelling Holy Spirit based on the subsequent course of their life? How would you answer that question, David and Tim? Well, yeah, you can.

Um it’s subjective but objectively we have to did did I follow the scriptures um you know so you you know you have to compare what you did versus you know was I born again did I make Yeshua Lord of my life not just savior but lord did I marry him in the waters of baptism did I repent did I hold anything back so out of a good conscience if I did do that um you know that that really is it’s a very simple equation to to you somewhat simple equation to come into Yah. I think the challenge is the sanctification part. That would be my answer. Okay. You say maybe I’m just fixated on this word precisely and maybe it’s an ongoing process, but I think that it also relates to what was kind of discussed last week as well, right?

Is that receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit doesn’t necessarily mean that that happens only when you know everything because if that’s the case, then we will never receive it, right? And so it is it is a point where you go in with the faith that you have and then God and the spirit continue to increase that. Right? So maybe it is the turning point is when you make that decision like Tim said to come under covenant to become and to become obedient to God in whatever whatever that looks like understanding at that time.

Right? based on your understanding at that time that’s where you know prayerfully you can you can uh you can state that’s where the spirit has been given to you and you it begins to work in you now if you look at if you look at Hebrews 10 it says well if you deliberately keep on sinning then there are consequences to that you know I think that the then that’s probably a whole different conversation is you know will the spirit depart from you right uh okay so yeah I think David was correct in focusing on that word precisely because there’s a lot of things here that are outside of our realm of understanding. Do you feel something when the spirit dwells within you? No.

You’re not going to come out of the waters of baptism feeling like you had a rush of cold air or something like that. There’s no physical manifestations like that. So then what how how can you tell if a person’s received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Well, remember our talk last week? The father’s pleased to give his spirit to those who o who will obey him. And so if you say show up at a church one day and they’re having baptism Sunday and you go, “Yeah, I’ll go down.” And you just jump in the water and be baptized and then continue to live your life just the way you were living it before. There’s a pretty good chance all you did was take a bath.

Baptism is something that that someone does in faith with full understanding of what’s happening. So there’s that. Uh I think it can always be tested as Paul says, Richard, by how a person lives and and how a person talks. There are some notable changes in a person’s activity, his or her perspective on things. Those things all change when the spirit of Yah is in a person. They change and they’re evident evident to all. Yes. Thank you. Richard’s question touches on something many people experience when they come out of traditional Christianity and begin walking in obedience to Yahw’s commandments.

They look back at their earlier profession of faith, their baptism, and the years they spent in Christianity, and begin asking themselves whether any of it was genuine. Were they truly saved? Did they actually repent? Was their baptism legitimate? Did they receive the Holy Spirit? And now that they’ve understood obedience differently, should they be baptized again? Well, at the risk of repeating myself, that’s something that you have to decide on your own. You have to consider those things yourself. Now, having said that, let me say this.

Everything that you experienced in your past, your early years in Christianity, your time in the church, everything that you did, the father still used if for us to look back at our past and go all of it was for not would be a completely faithless thing to say because even he used those moments to get you where you are today to get you to the point to where you would respond to the truth. So, we shouldn’t have negative perspectives, negative opinions. Can we look back at our old life and see the mess that it was even in the church and all the things that they taught incorrectly? Yeah, of course we can. But even through that, he used it to help you get to where you are today.

So in answering this question in red, my starting position is that we cannot determine the legitimacy of someone’s baptism simply by examining how much biblical understanding they possessed at the time David just said that or whether they subsequently struggled with sin. Also, and this is very important, far too many denominations have attempted to systemize the process of salvation, essentially putting Yhovah in a box. They’ve taken what scripture teaches and turned it into a rigid formula. I am guilty of that as though the father must operate according to their prescribed sequence of events. However, I’m going to show you something that is an answer, if you will, a little bit to Richard’s question.

What do we see in Philippians 2? We have to work out our own salvation. What does that mean? Consider the implications of what that [snorts] verse means. We all know it, but what is what are the implications here? Work out your own salvation. To me, when I think about what the implications are, I think to myself, self, in order for me to work out my own salvation, I need to know what the Bible actually says. And I need to unlearn what I’ve learned. I need to come to conviction about what it says and disregard everything that I’ve been taught, especially if what I’ve been taught is bunk. And most of the time we’ll find that it was bunk. It’s prophesied, right? Worthless and improfitable things.

Jeremiah says, “So to work out your own salvation, you have to come to some conclusions. You have to, you know, based on knowledge, not based on your feelings. You can’t say, “Well, I really feel like I was saved back then.” Uh, okay, wonderful. That means nothing because truth is not dependent upon your feelings. You have to have a emotionless approach to this and ask yourself, what do the scriptures actually say? So having said that, there are certain things in the Bible that give us a quote unquote protocol, if you will. But as I already confessed, my church along with many other churches have taken this protocol and systemized it.

The first thing that we see in scripture is the importance of hearing the message, right? Romans 10. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Yah. So the individual needs to hear the word of Yah. They need to believe in the word of Yah as it says in Romans 10. But they also need to have conviction about who Yeshua is. John 3:16, our favorite passage in all the whole world. At least it is in football. Uh for Yahw so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

So is belief in the person of Yeshua and what he came to do imperative? Yes. So the person needs to hear the message. The message includes Yeshua. It includes the word and we have to have belief and faith in both. And we also see language in several scriptures that talk about the repentance of sin. Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. So we do have to repent. Now, what does that mean? Well, in in the past, repentance for my old way of understanding was judged or determined by me or somebody else as to whether or not someone repented.

But here’s the thing, and something I’ve learned over the last several years, so much of what we’re talking about here is happening in the heart. And we have to leave room for Yah and the Holy Spirit. I’m ashamed to tell you that I have told people that they weren’t quote ready to be baptized because they didn’t follow something perfectly and that was wrong. And so knowing that all of this stuff is a [snorts] heart issue, we don’t know what’s in a person’s heart. Only he does. Romans 10 again says that we have to confess Yeshua. If you confess with your mouth the Messiah Yeshua and believe in your heart that Yahw raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Future tense. Notice it doesn’t say you are saved.

This is the Christian church’s favorite verse because they say as long as I just believe and I confess that Yeshua is Lord, I am saved. Well, if that’s the case, then none of the other stuff that I’ve looked at so far is being obeyed. For with the what? With the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth a verbal confession is made unto salvation. So yes, we do need to confess out loud that Yeshua is my Lord. And this really should be public. It was for them. Who’s Paul talking about here in Romans 10? He’s talking about the house of Israel and the need for them to come to this conviction and the need for them to declare openly, publicly that Yeshua really is the Messiah and then they will be saved.

But there’s this too. Baptism. Acts 2:38. We’ve read this verse many times. Repent and be baptized in the name of Yeshua for the forgiveness of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So Richard, is there a protocol? Well, yeah, here it is, if you want to call it that. These are the things that we see in scripture. I was having a conversation with someone just last week about this in the meeting that Randy was talking about where questions like this were asked. We see all over scripture all these things that talk about salvation. Should we just pick one and camp on it? Should we just say pick Romans 10 down and 10 and say that’s my flag pole.

That’s how I’m getting into heaven even though you’re not getting into heaven. [laughter] [snorts] Is that how I get saved? At the expense of everything else the word has to say? No. We have to embrace all of it, right? But here’s the big question. What if someone misses one of these or doesn’t do one of these? David, Tim, being provocative on purpose. I want to get your thoughts. I think it’s it’s an ongoing process, right? So you don’t maybe you don’t do it now but then you grow in your understanding and then eventually you end up doing it. So is the I guess your question is if we didn’t follow steps one through five then we have not received the Holy Spirit. I would tend to agree that probably yes. Okay Jim.

Well, I think number one, like God is chosen. The Bible says God has chosen you and I for salvation through, you know, the sanctification by the spirit in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and other places. So God is working in in our lives to get us to obey. We feel prompting every day and we need to listen to that. So I know that’s not answering the question, but if we know we need to do something, do it. If we don’t know, we give everything that we have. So if we want to be technical about that, I mean about the fact that when you transactionally cross over from death to life, there’s a few special ingredients there. You cannot not believe children are not eligible. They’re not candidates for baptism.

There there’s, you know, if we don’t repent, we just get dunked. So yes, there are essential ingredients and retroactive belief of just, well, I started off here, but now I’m at this level. Jesus says, “Unless you are get washed, you have no part with me. We need to be born again.” So, there’s not a simplistic answer, but I think if we listen to the spirit, um, he’s going to tell us what to do. Okay. Thank you guys. Those were very safe answers. [laughter] Here’s the deal. It’s a hard question. My wife says, “There was a time, as I said in my past, where I would say absolutely, if someone missed one of these things, they’re going to hell.” Looking at that list, can a person believe in Yeshua without hearing the message?

No. Romans 10 says faith comes by hearing. Okay. So, if you’re going to have faith in Yeshua, then you have to hear what you’re having faith in. Right? So, there’s that. What about repentance? Can you repent unless you know what to repent of? Well, again, someone would say no. You I mean, you need to know what you’re repenting of. We know that the church, the Christian church at large has missed the boat here because they don’t know that sin is a violation of the law. So, a person would need to understand something there, right? If they’re going to repent, you don’t just tell someone to repent unless they know what they’re repenting of.

We see that in Acts 15 where James said they have to repent of these things right now, right? So, some of these things, as Tim correctly put it, are are absolutely necessary. But I asked this provocative question on purpose. Because what we’re seeing here in scripture is a quote unquote model. I think Richard used the word protocol. It’s kind of a model. It’s kind of a standard because when you look at the conversions in the book of Acts, you see these things taking place. When you look at Apollos, he was obviously a man doing mighty things. And the Bible says he was speaking accurately about the way, about the truth. And yet he had only received the baptism of John until he was instructed otherwise.

And so after he was instructed otherwise, he repented and got baptized in the name of Yeshua, filling in that missing piece. Right? So we see we see that in scripture. However, having said all that, let me say this. The moment any of us tries to systematize this, we have put God in a box. What do I mean by that? Well, the thief on the cross, great example. You ever wonder why the Holy Spirit made sure that story was in the Bible? Thief on the cross did none of this. He didn’t know Yeshua really. He had no message to to base faith on. He saw what was happening and cried out to Yeshua and Yeshua saved him. Why? Well, because he has the authority. I made this statement before.

He can save anybody he wants, any way he wants, any time he wants. But he didn’t he wasn’t never baptized. The problem that the Christian church has made is that they have taken the story of the thief on the cross and made it the rule instead of the exception. And the rule as we see in scripture is right in front of you. all these things that that we need to truly come to a faith in Christ. That’s the rule. But there are exceptions and that’s the point that I want to make here.

If I’m studying, say, with Randy, and he’s a young person in the faith, and he’s learning all these things, and he’s embracing all these things, and on our way to the lake to get baptized, we get run over by a truck and both die, is Yahw going to keep him out? Well, correct answer to that is, we don’t know because we’re not the judge. I do know that he’s a god of love and that his desire is to save everybody, but I am not going to be that person who says, “Oh, yeah, well, Ry’s in hell now because he got run over a truck on his way to the lake to get baptized.” That is wrong on so many levels.

But the biggest level where it’s wrong is that it puts Yahw in a box and says he can’t do something or he won’t do something because he didn’t check every box or because Randy didn’t check every box. He’s got to be a bigger God than that. And he is. So, as I’ve said a million times, we are not the judge. We We need to stay out of that sandbox in declaring who is right and who is wrong, who is saved and who is not. That’s not our role. What our job is, what our responsibility is, is to work out your salvation with fear and trembling between you and him. Does that make sense? I hope that makes sense.

Chapter 5: The gift of tongues

Quick uh comment regarding that and the way you you wrapped it up. I wanted to also go back to Philippians 2:12 and 13. Whether you follow exactly the steps of the model or or not. Obviously, God is is able uh and willing to grant you salvation through his mercy and it’s his decision. So, it’s not that we earn our salvation, right? And when he talks there, it talks about, you know, work it out. So then it, you know, comes into, and I’m sure a lot of us have even heard, uh, you know, Christine and I include, it’s like, well, you are, you believe you’re being saved by works, right? That obedience is the works, and so you’re trying to earn your salvation, right? And that’s not what it’s saying over here.

However, that being said, referring to the model, you do have to have an active uh role and participation uh both in your heart as well as in your life to be part of this process, right? It’s not just automatically bestowed upon you. You actually have to be part of the process. So if you look at Philippians 2:12 and 13, it says, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but how much more in my absence, right?” He’s talking about obedience all the time, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. And in other translations says, continue to work out. It’s a continuous process.

It’s not something that you do and then you’ve earned it and you move on, right? continue to do it for it is and then he he makes it very clear it’s not you it’s not your work for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure right now basically our role and and kind of going you know referring to the the parable of the soils God can only work and things can only grow when the soil is cultivated and is good for planting the seeds so that they have deep roots and they can grow it’s our uh to continuously be cultivating the soil, our soil, right?

And and you have the parable of the soils and and you can say the way I’ve I’ve kind of looked at it, it’s kind of like a snapshot of where we are in time. But but in the same way in a soil, if you just neglect it, it starts growing weeds and it starts having so it has starting stones and rocks and it becomes hard. Right? So it’s our job to continuously be working in our heart to cultivate the soil so that we can receive that seed and then you know as it says in 1 Corinthians that then someone plants someone waters but the spirit and God make it grow right and so again it’s it’s a collaborative process but we have to do our part and you need to continuously be doing our part. Amen.

And one other short comment on on the last slide. All these things that we looked at the protocol if you will. Uh these things can happen in a day. These things can happen in an hour. Uh when you look at the Ethiopian unic how long did it take him right to come to conviction to come to faith and then say hey there’s water. Why can’t I be baptized? So it’s it’s something that that can happen quickly. Okay. On to tongues and we’re going to start with Sister Daria and questions that she kind of asked. I put my own words here. First, are the miraculous gifts or tongues of tongues described in Acts and 1 Corinthians still operating today? That’s the big question.

Second, if they are not, how do we explain the experiences of sincere believers who genuinely believe they have spoken in tongues? Huge question. And just so you know, I taught a lesson on tongues. Gosh, it’s been probably a couple years now. It’s on my channel. I’ll make sure I’ll link it to this one where we really got into this trying to figure out what’s what. And I remember back then the challenge of understanding every angle of this topic then and when I was going back through it a second time for this lesson I was reminded good grief there’s so many angles to this prayed a lot about it for the father to give me insight and wisdom. So, I’m going to give you my best shot at answering these questions.

But an experience can be genuine without someone’s interpretation of that experience necessarily being correct. Now, stay stay with me here. Not going to be taking one side or the other, but I wanted to make that statement. Daria may be completely sincere about what she experienced. She may have felt overwhelmed by the presence of Yahw, deeply moved in prayer or even spoken words she did not consciously formulate. None of that by itself establishes that what happened was a biblical gift of tongues. But neither does it establish that her experience was false. So that’s a huge question, right? Goes back to the original question. How do we figure this out? How do we determine what’s what?

So I ask myself, what is the stated purpose biblically of speaking in tonesues in the Bible? Well, tongues were given as a sign, the first one, 1 Corinthians 14. Therefore, tongues are for a sign. And guys, for the record, let’s do something for this study. Tongues is kind of a mysterious word because we’ve turned it into some mysterious thing in the in the churches, especially in the charismatic side of things. Really what we should be saying is language, right? Because that’s what tongues were. Tongues were a spoken language that someone didn’t study. Yeah. The the Hebrew word for language is lashon, which is tongue. Yes.

So therefore, languages, people that speak languages they haven’t studied, are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to unbelievers. Prophesying is not for unbelievers, but but for those who believe. Two, tongues enabled people to hear the wonderful works of Yahw. Acts two, creatants and Arabs, we hear them speaking in our own languages the wonderful works of Yahw. Three, tongues edify the congregation when interpreted. 1 Corinthians 14, I wish you all spoke with tongues. I wish you all spoke in other languages, but even that you prophesied even more that you prophesied. For he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with other languages. unless indeed he interprets that the church may receive edification.

Now, for the record, I have been around uh my fair share of Pentecostals who speak in tongues. One of my first earliest church experiences was in a Pentecostal church where they tried to teach me how to speak in tonesues. Didn’t know it then, but that’s a huge red flag. Nowhere in the Bible do we see that someone’s taught how to speak in tongues. We see that people can speak to learn new languages, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about a miraculous gift. So, what do I gain from all this? Well, in all the times I saw somebody speak in tongues, and right now at this very moment, you can probably turn on some Christian show where someone on the podium is speaking in tonesues.

But you know what I never see? I never see anybody interpreting those tongues in the congregations that are doing it. And we know from other places in Paul’s writings, 1 Corinthians 14, namely that if there is no interpreter, you need to keep your mouth shut. [laughter] What were the purpose the purpose the stated purposes of speaking in languages in the Bible? It’s a sign for those who are unbelievers. It’s for the purpose of those unbelievers hearing the wonderful works of Yahw. And there needs to be interpreter, which is a whole different issue for me. And guys, bear with me because as I teach this lesson, I’m going to be working through some things myself with you. Okay?

When I see people speaking in tongues, not only have I never seen an interpreter, I have never ever heard of a person speaking in tonesues who understands what they themselves are saying, which Paul also talks about. I’m not telling you all these things because I doubt. That’s not the reason I’m telling you all these things. I’m trying to give you a balanced perspective. These are three of the four stated purposes of speaking in tongues. What about the fourth one? 1 hour, 4 seconds Personal edification. I wrestled with this one, guys. It’s definitely in the scripture, but I wrestled with it 1 hour, 11 seconds nonetheless. 1 Corinthians 14:4.

He who speaks in a different language edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Why did I wrestle with this? 1 hour, 25 seconds I asked myself, how is the person edified if he or she doesn’t understand the language that he or she is speaking? One 1 hour, 33 seconds thing that I’m certain of, and again, you can go to my previous lesson on this. I’m not going to go into it right now, but one thing I’m certain of is 1 hour, 41 seconds that the person speaking in a different language is not capital N O T speaking 1 hour, 47 seconds in some angelic heavenly language. That is a lie. That is a flatout lie. And again, I explained that in my previous 1 hour, 56 seconds video, not going to do it here.

So, it is a language. It is an earthly language that he or she has never studied. 1 Corinthians 14 says, “He who speaks in the tongue edifies himself.” Okay, how what benefit is it? Right? Because doesn’t Yahw understand every language? Whether I’m speaking Spanish or German or English or Japanese right now, he will understand it. So, how am I edified if for some reason I start speaking Japanese in my prayers? This is the stuff I wrestled with. 1 Corinthians 14. For if I pray in a language, my spirit prays. Stop. My spirit prays. Lowercase. We talked about this in one of my shorts recently. That’s my inner being. My inner being prays. But my understanding is unfruitful. There it is. Why is it unfruitful?

Because you don’t understand the language that you’re praying in your spirit. And I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that when Paul talks about my spirit in all these verses, the only thing that I can arrive at is this, and this is just me. This is Ed Doss’s opinion. It makes me think that Paul in his usual different way of saying things, is making the declaration that the person is praying in their heart quietly as if to themselves, but not to themselves, obviously to the father. And we do that all the time, right? Not a day goes by that I’m not talking to Yahw in my heart, in my spirit. So when Paul says, when I pray in a language, my spirit prays, I’m praying to my in to myself, in myself, to Yahw.

I’m praying in my heart, but my understanding is unfruitful. Why? Because I don’t understand the language. What conclusion then as a result? What’s the conclusion of that? I will pray with the spirit lowercase in my heart, but I’ll also pray with the understanding. Well, wait a minute. He just got done saying his understanding is unfruitful. So, how can he say, “I will also pray with the understanding if you don’t have the understanding.” Do you see my wrestling here? And by the way, Tim, David, you have anything to say here, don’t wait for me to tell you because it’s it’s confusing to me.

Now, for the record, I’ve had several of you say, “Oh, you got to go watch this lesson called this and that from Brother Jeff Brennan.” And I did. And I have lots of problems with it. Not because Jeff’s not a good guy. I’m sure he’s a great brother. We none of us are perfect in our understanding. So, I’m not judging him. But I had a lot of problems with it exeetically speaking that I can’t really get into. I was I was going to try to get into it this lesson, but I can’t. So, Daria, here’s what I want to say. I think we need to avoid two possible errors. One is to say that because someone had a powerful experience, the miraculous gifts of tongues must still be operating today.

I think for us to say that is a possible error. The other is to say that because we believe tongues have ceased, modern experience must be fabricated, psychological or demonic. I think that’s also an error to say that because neither conclusion is adequately established in scripture. And trust me, I looked, I prayed, I searched for a hard solid rock definitive mic drop answer to tongues and I couldn’t find it. So Daria and others like her, Amy, she she expressed that she has spoken in tongues and we’ve heard other people on this channel say that. I am not going to tell you either one of those. I’m not going to tell you that tongues must be operating today.

I’m not going to tell you that you’re filled with demons because I don’t believe that tongues is operating today because I don’t believe either one. Well, let me just say that. Let me just let me just go back to my point that I made a moment ago in the previous slide. For me to say that tongues is absolutely not operating today is to put Yahw in a box. For me to say that people who are doing it are filled with demons or they have psychological problems is also equally wrong. Now do I believe in some cases this is true? Yes. I don’t believe that’s the case with Daria. I don’t believe that’s the case with Amy. I believe that they had genuine experiences that they really can’t explain. So what do you do with that? Right?

That’s the big question of the day. Let’s move on to brother Samuel.

Chapter 6: Tongues and the Holy Spirit

Samuel’s central argument is that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. And because Torah is truth, a person cannot genuinely be walking in the Holy Spirit while rejecting Yhovah’s commandments. He says that miraculous experiences, including speaking in tongues, must be evaluated by whether a person is submitted to Yeshua, committed to the covenant, and walking in obedience to Torah. Samuel’s thoughts, I felt, are largely sound, but I felt like it needs some clarification. Did the Holy Spirit fall on pagans? Yes. Acts 10, Cornelius and the bunch, Gentiles, not yet under covenant. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon those who heard the word. They were Gentiles. They were pagans.

And those of the circumcision, those of the Jews who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify Yah. Then Peter said, “Can we can anyone forbid water that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And then he commanded them to be baptized in the name of of the Lord. Last week we looked at this verse and we said, “Well, there’s two things happening here, right? The spirit came upon the Gentiles just like the spirit came upon Saul or came upon David or came upon Gideon or came upon those in Acts 2.

But the indwelling Holy Spirit doesn’t happen until they’re baptized. Acts 2:38. So, two things are happening here, right? But the point I’m trying to make is the Holy Spirit can fall upon unbelievers. Well, that’s a strong word. I don’t know how to use the word unbelievers because Cornelius was well on his way to being a believer. The scriptures say that he heard the man’s prayers. So, he he believed. I wouldn’t say that it falls upon total unbelievers, total ungodly pagans. Let me amend my statement by saying that. But they were gentile. They weren’t under covenant yet, right? They didn’t officially become under covenant until they were baptized into Yeshua. So, there’s that clarification to make.

As I pointed out last week, the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius and his gentile bunch before they received the indwelling. And this was obvious before any of them were properly under covenant. Why? Well, Acts 15. So, Yahweh knows the heart. That’s so important, guys. Do you know how important that phrase is right there to our discussion? Because that’s what I was talking about in Richard’s slide. It’s a matter of the heart. And so here speaking about the Gentiles, the Holy Spirit says, “Yah, who knows the heart, acknowledged them, the Gentiles, by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us, and made no distinction between us and them.” Why is there no distinction?

Because in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female. Right? So that’s just one small clarification that I wanted to make to Samuel’s comments. He didn’t really ask any questions, but he he does as he always does gives us great comments. But when you look at this, that’s another stated purpose of the giving of the Holy Spirit to make a point that I have accepted these people. And that’s exactly what was happening in Acts 10. So just a thought on brother Samuel. Yeah, just another comment regarding this. So it wasn’t only, you know, you were talking about Cornelius, he was well on his way and and consistent with what we’ve been talking earlier as well.

It wasn’t only that it was praying, but also he was acting and he said, “God has seen your prayers and your alms or your acts of charity, right?” So it was it was not only that he was praying and it was in his heart, but it was actually living these things out. Yes. Amen. Thank you, David. Okay. Hey, brother Jim with his cool sunglasses, his yellow sunglasses. He asked, “Does scripture distinguish between the miraculous gifts of tongues and a separate private prayer language?

Is there a biblical distinction between mikvah, which supposedly removes something, and baptism, which supposedly adds something?” So Jim suggested tongues as a miraculous ability to communicate in a language one has never learned while a prayer language is something used privately particularly during intercession without necessarily understanding what is spoken. Okay. I think that what Jim may be alluding to is what some call this angelic uh language. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. You already know my position on that.

But let’s assume that that’s not the issue and it’s just another language that the person is speaking in prayer and and is that somehow a different manifestation than those people who are otherwise speaking in tongues in their miraculous form? Well, I think the scriptures tell us in 1 Corinthians 4, for he who speaks in a language does not speak to men but to Yahw for no one understands him. However, in the spirit lowercase s, he speaks mysteries. Hm. Again, I struggled to understand this verse because one of the stated purposes of the giving of the miraculous gifts of tongues is for unbelievers. And yet Paul says does not speak to men but to Yahw.

So we can assume here that what Paul is talking about is again that inward speaking that speaking in your spirit that speaking in your heart. However, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. What’s the mystery? Many people have looked at this word and assumed that what it means is speaking unknown spiritual truths that are beyond understanding. They are up in the sky. they are connecting with the truth of the universe and they’re speaking and I just I have a problem with that on a lot of levels. So when I when I think about mysteries, well what’s the mystery when we look at this?

Well, again, we’re looking at this in the framework of speaking another language that no one understands [laughter] because this person’s not prophesying. He’s praying. And if he’s praying in a different language, no one’s going to understand that. Therefore, it’s a mystery. The individual himself may not understand it. Therefore, it’s a mystery. I don’t think that the word mystery is there to give us some idea that the individual is speaking these deep truths and these unknown oracles of Yah. This passage shows that a person may speak in a tongue without anyone present understanding what is being said, but does it establish a separate prayer language sometimes called an angelic language or some other unknown dialect?

And I say no, it doesn’t. Not explicitly. And you know how I am a stickler on what’s written. So unless the scripture actually tells us that, brother Jim, that it’s distinctly different, then we cannot rightly arrive at that conclusion. And I’m looking forward to comments afterwards. Let’s look at this verse here and kind of go slow through it. 1 Corinthians 14. But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in languages that you don’t understand, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation or by knowledge? by prophesying or by teaching. Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known?

So, it almost feels like Paul is riding both sides of the fence like I am because he’s on record as talking about the benefit of speaking in tongues while at the same time here in chapter 14, he’s talking about the challenge of doing it in such a way that no one knows what’s being said. For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? So likewise, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. Hm. Now wait a minute. Look at that verse in red in 1 Corinthians 14. And then look up at 1 Corinthians 14:2. He makes it sound in 1 Corinthians 14:6 through13. You’re speaking into the air as if to nobody.

And yet in 1 Corinthians 14:2, he’s saying you’re not speaking to men, but to Yah. You see some of the trouble I’m having with this from an interpretation perspective. There are, it may be so many kinds of languages in the world. And here guys, that phrase right there is super important. I think it does away with once and for all this whole idea of angelic language because he’s talking about speaking in tongues here and in the same breath talking about the languages in the world. None of them is without significance. Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language and again he’s on record as saying that that’s possible. I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.

Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel. Therefore, let him who speaks in another language pray that he may also interpret. And again, as I already confessed earlier, I’ve never seen that happen. Daria confessed that she had a moment where she prayed in a different language. Amy confessed that she has moments when she prays in another language. Jim, I think also confessed that that happens. How many of you know exactly what you were saying? And if you don’t know what you’re saying, then what’s the benefit of speaking in tongues? That’s just me. These are just questions that I’m asking.

He says there in that last sentence, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, another question I asked in a previous lesson was this. How many spiritual gifts are there, Tim? Uh, is it like 12? There there’s lots. Yeah, there’s lots. How come we never ever hear people talking about getting those gifts or having those gifts? Why is it always tongues? Now, what I’m about to say is going to sound accusatory to Daria, to Jim, to Amy, but please understand it’s not. I do not mean this to sound accusatory because I don’t think it applies to you. However, there are people in the world who are zealous for spiritual gifts because it makes them different. It makes them feel closer to God than anybody else.

It’s a level of spirituality. It’s the next level up. And that’s why they desire these gifts. I believe I have the gift of teaching. But I can also tell you that there wasn’t a moment in my life where I desired it. I didn’t grow up as a kid thinking, “Oh, someday I want to be a Bible teacher.” Never happened. But the gift was given to me for one reason or another. So, we have to take that into consideration in this discussion. Again, not that I think that’s happening with Jim or Amy or Daria. I believe you had genuine experiences as do others that it seems to be only this gift that some people are always talking about, always wanting, always saying that they can do mikvah versus baptism here with Jim asked this question.

Although I appreciate Jim’s illustration of the mikvah as representing the removal of something and baptism as the representing representation of the addition of something, I believe scripture presents a slightly different picture and does not quite support making such a distinction between the two. And I thought it is worthy of us talking about it. So we’re back on baptism here for the moment. Both the mikvah and the baptism are absolutely the removal of something. The mikvah was ceremonial cleansing and this was a type that pointed to the cleansing of sin that is given at baptism. We see that in first Peter 3. We’ve already read it that this is an anti-ype. Baptism is the anti-ype which now saves us.

And then he says here in blue, not the removal of the filth from the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward Yahw. Why did Peter take the time to make that clarification? because he knew that his audience knew that the mikvah was for the purpose of removal of the filth of the flesh. So Peter was saying this is not that baptism is not that. No, no, no. Baptism is where your conscience is washed clean, right? That I think Hebrews talks about. But he says it happens through the resurrection of Yeshua. Well, what does that mean? Peter’s saying the same thing as Paul in Romans 6. Or do you not know that any of us who were baptized into Messiah Yeshua were baptized into his death?

Peter says through the resurrection of Yeshua. Paul says, “We were baptized into his death. Therefore, we were buried with him through baptism into death. Just as Christ was raised from the dead, there’s the resurrection. So also, we should walk in a newness of life.” What does that mean? One can argue that our baptism is our death once and for all dying to ourselves so that we can walk a new because of Jim to answer your question what was removed and what was added. When you die you die to yourself. Acts two says at that crossing over moment is when our sins are washed away like the flood washed away sin from the earth and then the Holy Spirit’s given. So that moment at baptism is like our death.

We are being crucified with Christ as he goes on to say in Romans 7 so that we can be raised again out of the waters of baptism to walk a new life having his holy spirit within us. Okay. And lastly, what time is it? How am I doing on time? Oh my gosh, it’s 11:30. Guys, I’m sorry we’re going long, but this was a lot of stuff here. Michael uh Michael is correct that we cannot dismiss speaking in tongues simply because we believe the miraculous gifts no longer be uh be operating today. And I agree with that.

We must establish what scripture teaches about tongues, why they were given, and whether scripture actually teaches that they would cease before Yeshua’s return. and he brought up the question of Isaiah 28 as did somebody else in the course of yesterday’s or last week’s comments. Does Isaiah 28 teach that speaking in tongues was intended to be unintelligible? Well, Isaiah 28 begins with a rebuke against Ephraim and then addresses the spiritual condition of the priests and the prophets. Isaiah describes leaders whose judgment has been corrupted by drunkenness. They mock the simplicity and repetition of Yhovah’s instructions.

So he says in chapter 28, for with stammering lips and another tongue he will speak to this people to whom he said this is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest and this is the refreshing yet they would not hear. So when I look at this Michael I don’t see it as an encouragement that the day was coming that the father would speak to them in unintelligible words. It’s a rebuke even though Paul quotes it. The unfamiliar language was not presented as a private spiritual experience for personal edification. It was part of a judgment against the people who had refused to hear him.

And again, Paul or he quotes Isaiah 28, “In the law, it is written with men of other languages and other lips I will speak to this people and yet for all that they still will not hear me.” And that’s what exactly what happened. Therefore, again, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to unbelievers. Prophesying is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe. So, here’s the thing. We have to define them what the word unbeliever means. Because in Isaiah 28, he was talking to the elect. He was talking to Ephraim who were not unbelievers. They didn’t truly believe and that they believed by faith. We know that, but they were not unbeliever. They were not pagan unbelievers.

So when Paul says here that tongues are for a sign not to those who believe but to unbelievers, we have to remember that this has a purpose. Even when those of us who say we can speak in tongues, we have to remember that this has a purpose. But something that Michael said that stood out to me that I think probably stood out to a lot of you because this is where it gets interesting and this is my last slide. He said, and I quote, “Tongues is really what provoked him to jealousy.” What do you think I thought of when he said that? I thought of Romans 11. For I speak to you Gentiles, in as much as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may do what?

Provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. So this would be a great example of what Paul was talking about earlier. At the time, I think Michael confessed that he wasn’t in the way. This was something that led him to the way in part. So there it is. Tongues are for unbelievers and that’s what helped Michael get in the way. Paul identifies tongues as a sign to unbelievers, quoting a passage originally directed toward Israel. Michael as a Jewish man experienced what he understood to be tongues and was moved toward faith. And this makes sense to me because as I said, tongues always has a purpose in scripture.

They were never presented as simply a supernatural experience for the sake of having experience. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians that tongues were assigned to unbelievers. And considering that Michael is Jewish, I find his testimony particularly interesting. Now, does that automatically prove that what Michael witnessed was the miraculous gift of tongues? No, it doesn’t. But I certainly wouldn’t dismiss the significance of his testimony. My point is that throughout scripture, the miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit served a purpose beyond the experience itself. They were signs that testified to something Yhovah was doing.

So rather than focusing exclusively on how an experience made someone feel, I believe we should be asking and have been asking this entire lesson what biblical purpose it served and whether it aligns with that scripture with what scripture teaches about the gift. So, let me conclude by saying this because I’m dying to hear all of your comments. As we bring this discussion to a close, I want to emphasize something important. The question is not whether Yahovah is capable of giving someone the miraculous gift of tongues today. He absolutely is. He absolutely can. The question is whether we are what we are witnessing today is the same gift described in scripture.

So throughout the Bible, the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit served a purpose. They were never just about creating an emotional experience or demonstrating spiritual superiority. They testified to the work of Yahw confirmed his message and served as signs according to his purposes. I do not question the sincerity of those who have shared their experiences. Not even a little bit. I used to if I’m honest. I used to think you were full of hulum if you said this. I no longer do. Sincerity is is but sincerity is not the standard by which we determine truth. Scripture is.

So, and while Paul tells us that tongues would eventually cease, we you have to be careful not to claim certainty about the timing of that ceasing because again, the scripture doesn’t explicitly say it. So, my conclusion is simple. I’m not interested in putting Yhovah in a box by declaring what he can and cannot do. But neither am I willing to redefine a biblical gift to accommodate what some people claim to experience. We must never allow our experiences to interpret scripture. We must always allow scripture to interpret our experiences. I wish so very badly that I could give all of you a definitive rock solid mic drop answer on this topic. I simply can’t. And I think that’s a good thing.

I think the father wants to keep us on our toes in in this regard. So, those are my thoughts. I want to hear yours. Oh my gosh, we’ve hit almost a hundred people.

Chapter 7: Community testimonies

I gota I I think I upgraded my account, so hopefully we’re we’re okay. But I want to hear your thoughts, your rebukes. If you think I need them, if you think I’m wrong, I’m open to all of it. Uh let’s see. Brother Freddy has his hand up. Go ahead, Freddy. Praise God. Praise God. Shalom, brother. This is a uh such a deep topic right here. uh so deep, you know. Well, I actually have a a brief testimony on this. I think I’ve shared it with you when I was in the building. Um you know, doing everything I was supposed to do, brother. Like, I was the Lord really did change my life, you know, from gang banging and and selling drugs and using drugs.

I was so far deep into this wicked world until about three years ago, he threw a rope down for my salvation in the county jail. Transformed my life. So, what I’m getting to is when I surrendered unto the Lord, I was so sincere, brother, like everything died. And when I would hear this uh message come up, right, about the tongues, you know, and as we know in a lot of places today, they even go as far as to say you must speak in a tongue. And it it caused me to examine the scriptures, right? Because we got to go based off of what the scripture says. And you know, so I guess the question wouldn’t be, is there such a thing as a tongue? Because according to scripture, there absolutely is.

But instead, what is the gift of tongues? Right? And I would I would agree with you and with the scripture cuz the only example we’re given is in the book of Acts on the day of Pentecost when they began to speak in other languages, you know, and we see in in Corinthians 14, right, where it says you don’t speak unto unto men but unto unto God, right? But we have to examine all the scriptures. Scripture must interpret scripture. So if we use scripture right to uh explain scripture that’s what we see as it being another language. Now one more thing I want to touch on is in uh I believe it’s Corinthians 13 when it says if I don’t if I speak in tongues of men or angels but do not have love. Right? So what’s going on here?

Right? He’s saying that the way I interpret that brother is he’s basically saying like it doesn’t matter. You could speak like this like this but if you don’t have love you don’t have nothing. Right? But then what is he saying about tongues of angels? Well, let’s examine the scriptures. Every time an angel speaks, they’re understood. You know what I mean? And a lot of the cases, they speak in Hebrew, right? He says, “You shall call him Yeshua.” Right? They speak in Hebrew, Hebrew meanings, right? So, I would conclude that that every time an angel spoke, they would speak in Hebrew. So, what would be a angelic tongue, the Hebrew language, right? But that’s how I view that.

And that’s a bit of a a bit of everything that I want to share in a nutshell there. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. That was awesome. Uh, okay. Uh, let’s see. Cordon, you’re up next. Shalom, everyone. And I just want to just thank um the other person who used to be in gangs and other things like that. I appreciate your testimony, everything. That’s super encouraging. I just want to give you great respect and everything as far as that goes. Sarah. Um, so one of the things I did want to talk about is just um baptism as well as tongues. I’ll try to make it as quick as possible, Ed, but you remember a couple years ago how I was went to the lake with you and I basically got mfed and everything like that.

You remember that, right? And there was like those two men and everything like that. So, um, I’ve been baptized in the same church that Ed actually was baptized in back in 2003. So, one of the biggest things about it is is there was that part of me that still feel worried and everything like that. And I felt like God had to do that. It’s kind of like basically third time uh that old saying kind of third times is a charm cuz I got baptized as 7day advent then in his church and then again. But I think it’s one of those conditions where you still have knowledge, you’re still learning, you’re still growing and everything of that nature. And to this day, I don’t feel as much struggles as I used to feel.

I mean, I still have thoughts. I still have temptations. I still have other things that go on, but I feel like I I feel clear in his eyes, and I’m grateful for that. That doesn’t mean I still have other things.

The other thing that I just want to say when it comes to baptism is is we got to make sure that repentance is the biggest key because I feel often times, you know, even in the church that me and Ed as well as Tim Snow, it’s like, did you get baptized because you wanted a one up? uh between you and your friends and look cool because you wanted to do that or was there a girl you were trying to impress or was it basically just something where you just kind of just did it because your friends wanted to or was it genuine repentance and I think that’s one of those things that needs to be the case when it comes to the spirit when it was talking about the interpreting you know the spirit the speaking of the unknown mysteries it could be Hebrew it could be Aramaic it could be be Greek I don’t know what it is but why do we have to make an interpretation to interp interpret what the spirit is saying.

Why can’t we just let the spirit speak whatever the spirit is saying to the father so that way the spirit can actually do that? And that’s just one of those things I just wanted to kind of throw out there because I feel when we speak in mysteries, why do we have to interpret what the spirit is saying? kind of like a person who has a v ventriloquist, you know, why do we have to basically interpret something that we don’t really know what the spirit is saying in order to speak that in our own language because it is the spirit that’s saying it. So, I just want to throw that out there. Thanks again for your time, Ed, and all that you do. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. All righty, Josh, you’re up next. Hi, guys.

Happy Sabbath to you all. So, um, yeah, I was actually caught up in the, uh, charismatic movement for a little while, and I dealt with a whole thing with speaking in tongues. I won’t get into all that, but pretty much it, it caused me to really seek out the scriptures even more. So after this certain thing that happened like I said I won’t go into that but one thing I definitely want to share is um you know we’re talking about this as the gift of the spirit which you can uh the gifts of the spirit which you find in 1 Corinthians 4 or sorry not 14 uh 12. Um and I’m going to just read just a little bit of a scripture from here.

Um it says in uh 12 starting with 29 it says are all apostles are all prophets are all teachers are all workers of miracles do all have gifts of healing do all speak with tongues do all interpret but earnestly desire the best gifts and yet I show you a more excellent way emphasizing on the next chapter um 1 Corinthians 13 what love is and as I’ve studied about love even more so um I’ve see I see that what ultimate love is um is like ultimate selflessness the absence of self it’s about the the the um good of others you know um and I and I see how in in attributes of God that that is who he is you know if we were created in his image like uh that’s what was meant to be from the from the very beginning of the world before sin even entered in.

But anyways um and then uh after reading uh 1 Corinthians 13, the very first thing that said in um uh chapter 14 says uh pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. So it seems like that there’s an order of operation here that love is the greatest as in 13 as it states. Yes, desire these spiritual gifts, but even more so that people would understand you when you speak um on on spiritual things. So I’m going to just leave it at that. Oh, great great comments, man. I appreciate that a lot. Appreciate that a lot. Okay, M Brother Maxwell, you’re up. Good afternoon or good morning, Ed.

Um, I don’t disagree at all uh with the teaching that that you have presented today, but I do feel like there is a a specific nuance that while the focus of this was on the Holy Spirit, we’ve touched on something that so many people have experienced in in American Western Christianity. Uh I came up through church of God, Assembly of God, and then another decade in non-denominational. And I saw a very prevalent um move to fake it till you make it when it come to speaking tongues. And and that, you know, again, that probably has a lot to do with why I’m aligning with everything you’re saying along with the scriptural backing.

But there’s one specific passage that I think in the case of like Daria because I’ve been around, I’ve observed, I’ve witnessed, I’ve spoken with Daria a bit. I don’t think that her heart is misaligned, but I do think that a proper understanding of the difference between speaking in tongues in Romans 8:26 and 27 at some point, and I’m not even saying we have to do it today, but at some point that probably does need to be explored. And specifically, because I know you may not have it pulled up, it’s talking about the Holy Spirit does help in our weaknesses. Now, this is a lot of people look at Romans 8:28 and they don’t read 8:16-28 to understand the full depth of what’s being talked about here.

And when it’s talking about the Holy Spirit uh himself will plead our case with groanings unutterable. This is fervent and deep prayer. M this is this is when we are deeply grieved or something is very deep in our soul that we literally just don’t have words for. Now I’m not going to sit here and discount that that could be a verbal utterance and I think in some cases understanding and knowing Daria to the level that I do which is not very deep but it’s enough. I think when she gets into prayer and maybe others like her, maybe there is this very depth of [snorts] just earnest soulwrenching desire and fervent prayer that that does come out as a utterance or a uh groaning that the Holy Spirit is interceding on.

But I don’t think that that needs to be mistaken with a personal prayer language or speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit. So maybe at some point if you could do a teaching or explore that a little bit different because I want to make sure I’m in check too. I’m not saying I’m authoritative on this. That’s just my current understanding. And while I don’t I do believe that speaking in tongues is a separate thing. It is a language to be understood and interpreted. There is this one window of opportunity right here where I see that we could be conflating two completely separate topics. Thank you, brother. And that brings up another point, Amy. you’re going to be up next here in a second, but let me just say this.

Uh I when I hear someone like Jim or Amy or Daria talk about an experience they have, I have no reason to doubt anything that comes out of their mouth. Thus far, they’ve presented themselves as wonderful bibleelving, yahollowing, lawful disciples of Yeshua. So why what why what reason would I have to doubt them? I just want to understand it. I want to try to figure it out. And that’s not as easy as uh as one might think. So since Amy’s up next, let’s hear what she has to say. Hi, Shabbat Shalom. Great um conversation today. I loved it. Don’t agree with everything, but that’s okay. We’re all learning, right? [laughter] And that’s the beauty of it, correct? So um Yes. But let me let me put this in a way, right?

Because it’s amazing how my brain works, but it’s really too fast for my mouth. So, I don’t want to stumble up on what I’m trying to say. But I guess in essence, what I’m trying to say is is um and I know you weren’t calling this out as far as um you know, y’all must be doing this, so you know, you could look like you know, you’re the star student, right? I know that wasn’t directed towards us and I totally understand what you’re saying, but God couldn’t have made me any more different than I am and I’ve never tried to stand out. You know what I mean? So, it’s definitely the Holy Spirit. You’re already different enough is what you’re saying. 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. Don’t need to stand out any more than I already am.

But, um, and y’all can’t even see me. Um, I’m normal, don’t worry. Um, I just am not put together, so y’all can’t see me right now. But anyway, um with that being said, in all sincer uh oh my gosh, I’m losing my train of thought here. In all seriousness, um I don’t know what the the brother’s name was before whenever he says why do we need to try to translate or um interpret what the Holy Spirit is saying whenever you’re praying um to God, right? This is between the Holy Spirit and God. You’re not supposed to understand it. Um, I know I’m misquing him and I’m so sorry. But I agree with him and I don’t speak in tongues always. As a matter of fact, it has been years since I have.

But one thing for certain is the Holy Spirit is such a gentleman. Okay? He if you don’t want to do it, he’s not going to make you do it. He doesn’t want to creep people up, you know, because, you know, it it’s just who he is, you know. And anyway, my point here it goes. Bring it on sister. Yeah.

So basically our experiences I believe you know God I guess you know I don’t guess I know the Holy Spirit is you know the speaking in tongues is obviously um a gift of you know one of the many right and I think it has to do with what our background looked like the experiences we’ve had in the supernatural maybe right um because I can confirm with all of you guys and everyone in the world I am 100% % filled with the Holy Spirit and I love Yeshua with everything that I am. So, I’m a believer. So, I the point is is we can you spoke earlier, we cannot put God in a box. And how many times have we tried to? I would say I would submit to you we can’t put the Holy Spirit in the box either. You know, that that’s my whole point.

Um I I believe it is a prayer uh language between God and and and the Holy Spirit. And like the gentleman before was saying um like what Daria getting so into her prayer life that the Holy Spirit just like you know just just rises up in her and she starts speaking in tongues. You know what I agree with that you know and it’s okay if people don’t you know um I am not mad at the end of the day. I could care less. Seriously, it’s all about the father and you know what he he wants to you know in the holy spirit you know and I mean that with respect wholeheartedly.

Um but anyway that’s what I had to say you know basically okay can’t put well just so you know I am not one of those people who do not believe what you’re telling us that’s not say I’m curious though just because we’re talking about it. Yes. And uh Jim and and Daria, you can respond to this question as well. When when I I know you said it’s been years, but when that happened. Yes. A did you know what language it was? And B, did you understand what you were saying? Um absolutely no. It was in my own like I was alone. I was praying deeply praying like I I don’t think I’ve ever prayed. Whenever this happens, it’s a very deep prayer like he was saying before the brother before. No, I didn’t know.

And I know it wasn’t Hebrew because I can I can conver, you know, I can I’m I’m conversationalist in Hebrew. Like I I can understand Hebrew and Korean too. Never. I know it wasn’t Korean because I can speak that too a little bit. So, but no, I didn’t know. But I didn’t care. Yeah. It was like, “Holy Spirit, I know you’re speaking something between you and the father and whoever that is for. Praise the Lord. Let it be done.” Amen. Amen, sister. Well, thank you for sharing. Um, let’s see. I think Candace is up next. Hey, Shabbat shalom, everybody. I just wanted to share.

Um it was a really great teaching and um you know it’s a lot to ponder and I was just thinking about Daria and you know not that I’m questioning where she was in her journey but with what she brought with her the teachings that she brought with her we have to line it up with the word um you know and only not that I only Yahwh will know your heart and that was something I wanted to share with is um you know about the baptism when I was going to church that um I wanted to get baptized for all the wrong reasons. You know, it was edifying to myself. I thought that like it was an event for me.

And you know, now I reflect on that and I’m like, “Wow, like I was really making my baptism about me.” And it it it never should be about me. And um I think that we just have to examine the posture of our heart on our own. And uh that’s all I wanted to share. Well, amen, sister. I appreciate that thought. Uh okay, brother Jim is up. Maybe Jim, you can start by answering this same question that I asked Amy. Yeah, sure. Uh for me, it’s not a known language. Um for me, it’s not a consistent thing either. Maybe to uh sync up with Amy and to address uh brother Max. For me, I guess I would call it a prayer language takes place when I run out of words but not out of prayer. Most of my regular periods of prayer.

I run out of prayer before I run out of words. So, for me, it’s an intermittent thing uh that happens when perhaps there’s a greater burden. And that might help people understand what’s going on. Uh I I’ve fussed with 1 Corinthians 14. I still fuss with 1 Corinthians 14. it it seems like he’s looping back and forth on himself. The place where I’ve arrived and I’m I’m I’m at peace with disagreement is that there seems to be verbalizations that come from the mind and verbalizations that come from the spirit. One has to do with understanding and one has to do with mysteries. I So that’s where I land. I’m not going to fall on this sword. I’m not going to, you know, I’m not going to rant or anything like that.

It’s just kind of where I’ve landed and I, you know, I’m an older man now. I I I used to rant. I used to be at a place of, you know, going to war with everyone who disagreed with me. And I’m not there. [laughter] I’m just not there anymore. You know, with age comes wisdom, right, brother? What’s that? With age comes wisdom, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I’m just like, okay, be at peace, man. It’s like, you know, is Yeshua your sin bearer? Yes. And Amen. He’s taken the stain of my sin from the father’s eyes. I’m double double covered. I’ve got the covering of righteousness and I’ve got the covering of salvation. I rejoice in that.

And uh you know I I I’m pretty much at peace these days with people that are in still in the Sunday Easter Christmas. I was a Torah terrorist for a while. I was a flat earth terrorist for a while. I’m I’m at peace with things. You know, I’m just like, you know, brother, be blessed. And so that’s kind of where I’m at right now. What was I going to ask? Oh, yeah. It seems to me, let me see if I understand you correctly, Ed. But it seems like what you were saying is that praying in the spirit is praying in your heart quietly. Is that how you were describing it? That’s kind of what I was leaning toward. I’m not saying anything thus sayeth the Lord.

I am saying as I read Paul, I kind of I kind of thought, well, what is he what does he mean by praying in the lowercase spirit? Because people will will read that and they’ll go, praying in the spirit means praying with the Holy Spirit. That’s it’s lowercase spirit on purpose. That’s the inner being. So it made me think, well, maybe he’s trying to say in his Pauline way, praying in your heart, you know, and we all do that, right? We we talk to the father all the time silently in our heart. So I thought maybe that’s what he’s saying. Yeah. I I I would say that I I would push back on that because it seems like when I’m praying in my heart quietly, I am praying with my understanding.

I know the words that I’m using in my heart. So that would be my push back on that. Um that’s a good point because he does say miss he does he does talk about understanding there. Yeah. And so my my other thing is that not everybody prays in tongues. This is just like this is a gift of the Holy Spirit that in his sovereignty he he gives some to be pastors and teachers and evangelists and prophets and some he gives the gift of tongues. Not everybody has to speak in tongues, you know. And um you know I I don’t think I’ve ever ranted about that but cuz that one always seemed clear to me. I mean there were people that just it defied them. And you know I’ve been I you know I’ve been in the charismatic uh community.

This is, you know, I I’ve come out of that um walk of faith, you know, where there was a lot of hamburger helper, you know, a lot of shaba shaba shika should have bought a Honda, you [laughter] know, and uh there, you know, it’s like, dude, seriously, just that’s not truth. That’s not walking in truth. That’s not real. So, um walk in truth. If you have it, use it when it bubbles up. If you don’t, don’t worry about it. you know, pray with understanding. So, that’s kind of where I’m at and that’s kind of where I’ve landed. And um be at peace, you know, for those that disagree with each other. Amen, brother. Thank you. Okay, brother Gman, you are up next. Hallelujah. Shabbat shalom. Very good discussion. Worthwhile.

Have a lot of things to say. Um, part of how I was provoked to jealousy uh when I walked into that former Gestapo officer’s church in Berlin 1993 was uh I just felt such a presence and occasionally when there would be singing in the spirit or basically it was a it was a form of worship that I noticed where there was in this tongues and it just felt like I long for an encounter with God and and experience, right? And they are praying. There was a manora in the front of the church and a flag of Israel in the front of the church, a charismatic church in in Berlin. And I I was just like, this is an experience here, [laughter] an experience with my God, but they’re Christians. You know what’s going on here?

Why are they praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? and why do they have relationship with him and I don’t I I it plainly you know so it it provoked me because I longed for experience with God uh beyond a dead religion and over the many years where I experienced abuse of the spirit which I believe um you know the spiritual gifts in the church in various places um uh I I totally agree that that happens. You know, I believe that’s what Paul was rebuking uh with the Corinthians because they were overdoing it, you know, and going into all craziness. You can have too much of the word only in the word. You can’t and too much of the spirit. You need a balance.

So, my understanding with um Isaiah 28 is that people were just only uh knowing God in their head. Everything had to be precept upon precept. there to the point where they they they weren’t they were mocking the the prophet’s sayings and it you know it was just foolishness to them and so God was saying okay if it’s foolishness to you and they were mocking then you know I will speak with foolishness your what you claim is foolishness like we have we can kind of link that up with Acts two why did they think that they were drunk of people praying in in tongues or in their spirit. Why were they mocking them? You know, so um there’s a lot to that. And and the Isaiah 28 chapter, yes, it was a rebuke. Yes.

But why is it said then then this is the rest that I promised you, but you wouldn’t have it? you would have none of it. So what is the rest that God means there with the stammering lips and it’s it’s it’s a little bit difficult to understand even for me still today. But what does it mean to pray? Like in Jude 20 it says, “What does it mean praying building up yourselves on your most holy faith?

Praying in the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit ghost disguised like in German, you know, what does it mean to us?” you know, my experience with tongues, my my when I first came back to the states um and heard from the people that I hung with like in fellowship and Jews for Jesus, that was more of a cessationist type of a posture in that ministry. Um and so I stopped speaking in tongues, but I I just wasn’t at wasn’t at peace with it. My my biggest stumbling stone to speaking with tongues was well where’s the tongue of fire above my head? Where’s the you know the um exper the deeper experience? I I I don’t experience anything and God taught me not to be chasing experience over the 30 years that I’m with the Lord.

And that that’s that’s good. Uh but what I do experience is a generating of my faith when I speak in tongues and I do it a lot you know but I do it when I elect to it’s a volitional gift I from my understanding from scripture I can’t give you all the scriptures but there’s a difference there’s diverse tongues my understanding there’s um a tongues as a um self-edification prayer language which like it says speak to yourself man, you know, so um that’s edification. Um and and how is it edification if it’s unintelligible? Well, it’s generating faith in me because I just don’t know what to say, don’t know what to pray many times.

So, and if it’s such a deep grievous experience, you know, or a heavy like I just it’s it’s boggling my mind, you know, whatever the prayer issue might be, I will have to then search my head and, you know, break my brain to try and conceive of a scripture many times or or if it’s just beyond understanding, then I’m not going to necessarily find the words in English to speak. But it is edifying if I’m if I’m speaking unintelligably and I’m I’m getting a confirmation in my spirit that I’m something’s being generated and I’m dislodging a burden.

And if if that means according to many people’s interpretation that I had to it had to be an intelligible language like French or German or Hebrew or whatever, it wouldn’t necessarily edify me. what’s happening in my spirit if I’m going on with the tongues you know um it generates suddenly then a a rama word will come like not not just a logos word that I’m fixated on but a word from the word that fits the situation that I’m praying for and that’s very gratifying that’s that generates like faith and hope and um uh a posture of trust and and you you know, God’s working.

So um I’d love to say more because there’s so much but um I really feel strongly that um uh that you know the body has many members and we’re not to discount I I’m not saying people in tongues are more spiritual because I’ve seen so much foolishness and I’m really akin to um like nar n uh you know um kind of like it’s wrong theology totally. Uh or abuse of the spirit, you know, I’m really akin to that. I’ve left churches because of that. Or Glendalini spirit like counterfeit tongues just like counterfeit words. So, and how I practice this this gift of tongues is I I’m doing it on my own. I’m not de demonstrative. It’s part of my prayer life, you know.

But as the body, I can’t think that I’m more spiritual than others who don’t speak tongue. No. Or or we see on the other end of the fence, many people think those people who speak tongues, they’re just crazy crazy crazy. No, we we got to be careful because the elbow hath no can’t say I have no need of the mouth. You know, we know the scripture there. So um uh I I know that the the biggest hindrance for me was I am so embarrassed like I was so fearful of what man thinks. So I was deeply ashamed to start to let myself utter an unintelligible language and and the the the biggest stumbling stone that came oh from the enemy I believe was you’re just doing that yourself. That’s not the Holy Spirit. You’re just doing that.

You’re making it up. You’re trying to copy the others. But I’ve seen so much with it how God confirmed it like in times of danger when I’m being attacked by nearly could have been attacked by a Palestinian, you know, and I just launch into tongues aloud and the whole situation changed. or if I’m walking in an area um where there’s just it feels so dirty and so contaminated, I start praying it low in my spirit up in tongues because I feel such bad spirits around. So that’s another use for it, you know.

Um but generally it’s to generate uh my spirit man like a like a generator for a battery and a charge is happening and and um I I don’t talk about it really with people who are going to be paranoid or thinking that’s a devilish thing you’re doing there. I just leave it you know and that’s basically my take to it. Thank you for hearing me though. My long distance. Amen, brother. Appreciate it. That’s very very interesting uh comments. We’ll have to talk more about that. Okay, we have two more people. Darl, Darilyn and Jonathan, you guys please be brief. We are 45 minutes over our allotted window, but you know, we can do that every now and then. But go ahead, Darilyn. What you’re up.

Um I just wanted to say that um I agree with a lot what Michael said. It’s relieving a burden. It’s interceding for other people. Sometimes I do know what I’m praying and I can interpret it. Other times I don’t I don’t pray out loud in front of anybody. I have found myself praying in a store looking for something. And but I wanted to say that there’s a on YouTube they did of course a test. Everybody wants to test people. So they did MRIs of people that spoke in tongues. Um when they they gave them something to read at the beginning and so they could see their their brain moving and uh waking up and everything 2 hours, 8 seconds when they were speaking.

Then they would put them back in and do another screening of them praying in their tongues. And there was nothing. 2 hours, 20 seconds It was like rest. 2 hours, 22 seconds So maybe it is a language of rest for our brains because it’s it’s it’s crazy sometimes our thoughts, you know. 2 hours, 31 seconds Anyway, thank you. Well, amen. That’s interesting, too. Okay, Jonathan, briefly. 2 hours, 37 seconds Hey, Ed, thanks for giving me the floor again today and thanks for everyone who prayed for us during the hurricane that 2 hours, 44 seconds devastated our area. We’re all safe and we thank you all for your prayers.

I just wanted to mention what came to mind 2 hours, 51 seconds during the discussion of the Holy Spirit in tongues. The most the thing that uh 2 hours, 57 seconds helps me make sure that I’m on the straight and narrow is my action. What are my actions showing according to the scripture? Does does do my actions show that I’m following the scripture? As Galatians 5:16 says, uh walk in the spirit so that you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. And then it starts to define all of those as contrasted to the works of the spirit as well. The spirit of God and I’ve seen this in my own experience uh when witnessing verses just come to mind when uh they normally wouldn’t under normal circumstances.

And I believe that’s what Paul was referring to and Yeshua was referring to when he said, “Do not fear what you should say in the moment for the spirit of God the father will reveal to you what you need to say in that moment.” So that’s all I wanted to share and uh thank you very much for this teaching. Oh, amen, brother. Okay, Daria, you are begging. Please go ahead. What What do you have for us? You’ll be the last one to share. Okay, thank you. I just want to because my name was uh mentioned many times. I am not used to that. I rather be a quiet mice everywhere. So I just want to say something. Okay. When I was given that that gift of of the tanks and I was still not sure, you know, I said that’s crazy.

And because that was that happened when I was uh in the room with that missionary uh and his interpreter because I didn’t speak that at that time uh in English and I just didn’t know but I was not sure. So anyway, I asked the the father, “Father, if this is not from you, please take it from me because because I didn’t know I I was doubting it and I begged him, please, please, if it’s not from you, keep, you know, I laid this I laid this gift to the altar and I said, “Lord, here it is again. If it’s not from you, you just take it from me.” But it didn’t happen. I still have this I still have this gift. And the important thing is what it does in me. And this gift when I’m using it, it leads me closer to God.

It reveals it give it he helps me to understand the scripture. And also this for me is a prayer language. I don’t speak in front of anybody you know like when I’m among people I just keep it quietly in me. I don’t expose myself and saying look I can speak in tongues. No I I am a prayer warrior. God has called me to be that one and he gave it to me as a prayer language. And when I pray for people and I they ask me to pray for them. I pray and when I don’t know how to pray in order to pray God’s will and not to manipulate God, I just pray in tongues and I know that I am praying God’s will. That’s what I wanted to to tell you. You know, I gave it to God. He didn’t remove it from me. I am still using it. Every day I pray.

Every day I pray in tanks when I don’t know and I know that as a as a result of my me praying in thanks I get closer and closer to God and because of even because of that that that language that gift I discovered Torah I believe that was because I was praying for that in spirit for me it’s okay so I just wanted to say that that for me it’s a prayer language it helps me and also the gift of prophecy [snorts] and the gift of the tongue with the interpretation is the same like the gift of prophecy.

So it’s it’s it’s same but we can pray uh like for our own education and of course God is giving all the gifts not for us only but to as to to build the community you know uh so it’s not for us and the the this god is still the same yesterday and as it was in the time of acts as he is today. So if he is giving us today the gift of prophecy or gift of discernment, I believe he is also giving us the thinking of tongues. He doesn’t make the difference. He is the same like he was yesterday. He is the same today. That’s what I wanted to say. And thank you very much, brother. I love you. I love all of you. Shalom. Wow. Well, thank you, Daria. Wow. Wasn’t this fun.

Um guys, thanks for joining on along with me on this journey here. Uh 2 hours and 20 minutes. Your comments so valuable. I I’m I want to know more. I want to learn more. I’ll continue to study. Um as you know, I I’m not taking a stand one way or the other. I’m leaving room for the father on this. And uh just appreciate so much your input, your thoughts, sharing your experiences. It’s all so valuable to me and to the greater audience um that on YouTube who will be watching this. So guys, have a fantastic Shabbat. We’ll come back next week with brother David Baronson teaching what I thought was a masterful spiritfilled lesson on uh the wilderness that will kick off kind of a series on the wilderness.

We’ll probably do two or three uh total lessons uh about that because it’s coming up a lot. People have a lot of questions and um that’s it. Thanks for everything. Love you. Have a great Shabbat. We’ll see you everybody. Love you guys. Shabbat shalom. Have a great day. Have a great weekend. Absolutely. Bless you. Shalom. Shabbat. Shabbat. Delightful Sabbath. Shabbat shalom. Shalom. You all shalom. I love you. Thank you. God bless. Shabbat shalom. Hey, Daria.